Chris Spencer and Deon Cole on Their ‘Black Comedy in America’ Series

In the many movies, TV shows and documentaries that peer into Black America, Hollywood often leans heavy on how African Americans used music to communicate and push through decades of highs and lows in the country they call home.

But Black people love to laugh, too! Laughter is a thread that runs just as deep as music in the tapestry of the Black American cultural experience, and now a 10-part docuseries on VICE TV continues to look at that phenomenon and how it resonates with Black Comedy in America.

The third episode of the series hosted by comedians Tiffany Haddish, Chris Spencer and Ryan Davis, which aired Tuesday night, looks at the impact of classic Black ‘70s sitcoms such as The Jeffersons, Good Times, Sanford and Son and Different Strokes, among others. The episode not only focuses on how those ground-breaking sitcoms paved the way for future shows like Black-ish or Insecure, but it also looks at the overall impact those shows have on Black comedy.

To explore the docuseries and what it says about Black comedy, The Hollywood Reporter spoke with two Black comedians who are some of the hottest stand-ups, actors, and writers right now — co-host Spencer and Deon Cole (the latter guest stars on the third episode).  Be warned: Laughter and mayhem may ensue.

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First, let’s get into how this docuseries, Black Comedy in America, came about.

CHRIS SPENCER Actually, Michael Strahan’s company and Tiffany Haddish’s company were the production houses. My wife was running Tiffany Haddish’s company and she was like, “You know what would make this fantastic? My husband’s phone book.” And so, I started off as an EP and then they were like, “You should also be a host.” That’s actually the only reason I took the job. So, I ended up being a co-host with Tiffany, and we were like, “We need somebody young.”

And it is great watching Ryan [Davis, co-host] because some of the stuff we assume everybody knows, he doesn’t know. He was like, “I didn’t know about Eddie Murphy until 1988; I didn’t watch Richard Pryor until ’92.” He’s young, 27 or 28; so hearing his frame of reference in watching us grow up, and the things that were immediate to us, are still above him. It’s great to watch and hear his brain and hear him talk. He’s already a genius.

When someone thinks of the pulse of Black America, especially from outside of the U.S., our music is usually the first thing that comes to mind. So, this may seem strange to ask, but what are each of your definitions of Black comedy?

DEAN COLE Black comedy is truth! Pure, raw, uncut truth! Ain’t no bouncing around it. Ain’t no metaphors and ain’t no puns. It ain’t none of that. It’s just straight truth.

SPENCER I agree. And I have an example of the straight truth, especially with Black audiences and stand up. We don’t care who you are — if you don’t bring it, then we’re going to let you hear it. White audiences go, “Well, he must be a professional, he’s on the stage. I paid my money, let’s give him a chance.”  But we don’t care who you are, Eddie [Murphy], Richard [Pryor], Dave [Chappelle, the comedians explored in Black Comedy in America episodes].

I remember one night Ernest [Lee Thomas] — remember from What’s Happening!! — he came out with the best intro [starts doing a dance that Thomas’ character made popular on the show called “The Raj”], people were calling out “Raj! Raj!” They were going crazy, right? One minute into his act, they were like “Okay, okay Raj. Come on Raj!” Two minutes, they were like “Hmm? Ah!” Three minutes they were like “What’s happening!!!??” But here’s the part, it’s so truthful and indicative of the sitcoms as well.

So, there are no other parameters or meters, if you will, in that definition?

SPENCER There are usually Black people in the comedy, if you want to add that (laughs).

COLE It’s not just the comedian that is truthful; it’s the audience, too. It’s the whole experience. It’s not an untruthful audience when it comes to Black comedy. They are going to let you know, I don’t care who you are. To Chris’ point, I have seen some of the hottest of the hottest go on stage, and the audience will give you a graceful five minutes just because of who you are, and then after that…

SPENCER No sugarcoating! Black people work hard; so, if we’re going to spend our money on this night, you better be entertaining! Because first of all, Black people in the audience are going, “You know, my cousin is funnier than him,” or “I’m funnier than him” or “I’m better than him” or “My sister funnier than her.” So, you better be funnier than everybody in their family and them.

COLE And Black folks are sitting out there going, “I’m paying this babysitter every hour. You better make it worth this babysitter, every hour!” (Laughs) So, again, it’s truthful.

African Americans used music from the Middle Passage through slavery, and through other generations. to tell stories and send messages to the community. Has Black comedy been used in that way to convey messages?

SPENCER Absolutely! I think tragedy plus time equals comedy, right? So many of the greatest comedians have gone through some struggle, right? Richard Pryor talks about growing up in a brothel and having to sit there and then watch men come in and out of his mother’s room. Kevin Hart’s father was on crack. So, it’s a healing process for us. While we’re healing ourselves, we’re also talking to other people who have possibly gone through similar circumstances, or any imperfect circumstance, to figure out a way to make themselves feel a lot better.

COLE It’s therapeutic. A lot of us, if we didn’t have that stage, would probably be crazy, in jail or whatever, because we don’t have the money for shrinks. So, we’ve been taught and we found out that comedy is a form of therapy. And once you use it as such, it can really be a beautiful thing.

SPENCER I always go back to Richard Pryor. He was talking about police brutality in the ‘70s, and how nothing has changed. There are still those things they talked about that we also talk about in our acts that are messages. We’re speaking to our people. We’re ministers up there at times; we’re counselors, basketball coaches. We’re fathers, mothers, sisters. Especially when we’re talking to us, because we hear and feel things differently.

I started off in the mainstream rooms, I’m not sure if Deon did, but it’s a different feeling when you kill in a Black room. Those things touch us to our core! When we’re talking to a mainstream audience, some things we do are cultural. I like the word “cultural,” and I liked when Denzel [Washington] did the interview. They were talking to him about the film Fences and they were like, “Could a white guy direct this?’ And he was like, “Yeah, but things are cultural.” You know, like that hot comb on the back of somebody’s neck. That ssss, you could smell that; you could hear it. That’s cultural. Not too many hot combs in the white community. (Laughs)

How did the Black comedy series of the ‘70s shape not only the Black series of today, but Black comedy itself?

COLE It’s the blueprint. Like anything else, they kicked the door in and everybody had a variation of it. And that’s all it is, it’s your variation. Then there are going to be variations of variations. And it’s going to keep going. Black people are multifaceted, man. We are in all types of situations. There are Black people that don’t like Black people. There will be a show about that, (laughs), and I think me and Chris should do it (laughs).

SPENCER It’s called Us and Them (laughs).

COLE I remember when I was doing [Deon Cole’s] Black Box on TBS and there was this Black dude that we interviewed and he couldn’t stand Black folks. This whole interview was just like, “No, I don’t, um, no I don’t do that” and “I don’t know, that ain’t … I don’t need that”  and “No, I don’t eat that …” And I just kept talking to him and he was like, “Nah that’s just how I feel. Like I don’t like drinking with a bunch of Black folks. Cards? Spades? Like, why would I play spades?” And I hired him! (Laughs) Because I felt like he gave a different perspective. And I was like, “Man, this dude is amazing!” Me and him fought every morning, yo, but it made for some great TV.

SPENCER And his name is Byron Allen. (Laughter erupts)

COLE The prospective is going to constantly evolve with more situations that we’re in. You wouldn’t have an Issa Rae show without Good Times. It’s just evolution.

SPENCER I mean there is no Black-ish, there is no Cosby Show, there is no My Wife and Kids without The Jeffersons and Good Times. And you could see remnants of these father figures in the father figures of these later shows. John Amos (Good Times) and James Avery (Fresh Prince of Bel-Air) were similar. Martin [Lawrence[ and Sherman Hemsley were similar. And we never saw an affluent Black family until The Jeffersons. I literally remember watching that show when they finally told me that was a set. I was like, “Impossible, I seen him getting on the elevator, they go all the way to the top.” We aspired to be that. Even with Good Times — well, we didn’t aspire to be like Good Times — that nuclear family was incredible to watch. So, we aspired to have that strong Black father and strong Black mother, and then the brothers and the sisters in our home. They all got along like brothers and sisters do, but of course, they would have disagreements. And since it was a strong family, that is why the mainstream also enjoyed watching these shows.

Is it true that most, if not all, of the Black comedy series of the ‘70s weren’t written by African Americans? If that is true, I was wondering if that encouraged you two …

SPENCER Encouraged us to want to be white? (more laughter)

I was thinking more along the lines of encouraging you to write your own material.

SPENCER Absolutely. I don’t know if that is what influenced me. I was actually influenced by the Wayans family, who were always like, “Create your own empire, don’t wait on Hollywood.” Because I had a couple of deals for TV shows and then you look up and the showrunner is this dude who has no idea what I’m talking about; he doesn’t know what a hot comb smells like on the back of somebody’s neck. So, as I started to grow and the acting jobs became less, I started to write.

COLE He hit the hammer on the nail. You got to create your own stuff. They only can [take you] so far; so, you got to go the rest of the way.

SPENCER And also, the real creator of those shows is [Eric Monte], who is from Chicago. He was in the room. He’s the one who is telling them, “No, no, no. WE don’t bake bologna, we fry bologna.” He was there and he said, “You know, there was once a Black Jesus in my house; we should do an episode about that.” He doesn’t get the credit he deserves because he was the brainchild of all of those shows.[Editor’s note: According to the Los Angeles Times, Monte filed a lawsuit in 1977 suing ABC, CBS, Norman Lear and others for allegedly stealing his ideas for Good Times, The Jeffersons and What’s Happening. The newspaper states he claimed to have received a $1 million settlement and some residuals from Good Times but was blackballed in the industry afterwards.]

Where is Black comedy heading over the next 10 to 20 years?

SPENCER I think it is at an all-time high, right? There was a time when there was a seasonal hot guy — it was Flip [Wilson] and it was Redd Foxx. And then it was Richard [Pryor], and then it was Eddie [Murphy], and then it was Damon [Wayans].

And now it’s Deon, Kevin [Hart], Mike [Epps], Dave [Chappelle], Chris [himself] all doing huge numbers on the road, their specials are doing incredible. So, it’s not like there is a crabs-in-the-barrel thing. Deon and I just did a show with Dave Chappelle last month. Sometimes big-time headliners don’t want to have too much heat in front of them. If you put Deon in front of you, you are saying, “I am ready to handle it!”

COLE (Laughs) I was about to say… (both laugh)

SPENCER I’m ready to handle it. It is a friendly competition. It’s like, “Yeah, follow that!” So, it’s great to watch, when you see comedians putting each other on. Tiffany [Haddish] did the She’s Ready series where she had two seasons of putting on comedians. Kevin Hart has done things with the Plastic Cup Boys. Dave Chappelle has done some things with Donnell [Rawlings], Luenell and we’re about to see Tony Woods. We love seeing each other thrive! That is what’s great to watch.

I remember when Deon came to town. And I said, “Yo, this dude is absolutely fantastic!” And then I got a chance to work with him on Grown-ish and he was absolutely fantastic. We have an R&B group called “Lustacy” that nobody knows anything about (laughs).

Deon, there might be quite a few older single men who are pissed at you right now. [Editor’s note: In his recent Netflix comedy series, he tells younger women the best way to get rid of older men at a club is to let them finish flirting and then simply reply, ‘Okay, Mister!’]

SPENCER (Laughs) Deon is giving up game!

COLE (Screaming laughter) Yo, like we said from the beginning: Black comedy is all about truth! Black comedy is truth, man!

SPENCER Yes, Black comedy is truth!

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Black Comedy in America returns with new episodes Nov. 12 at 10 p.m. ET/PT on VICE TV, with episodes streaming online at Vicetv.com. A repeat of Deon Cole’s “70s Sitcoms” episode airs Nov. 10 at 10 p.m. ET/PT. Upcoming episodes of Black Comedy in America feature Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle and more.